Hobby King has a very bad reputation when it comes to Heli's within Australia. I know some people over seas swear by them, but I believe even those have been modified and replaced various parts with different brands or "Original" for lack of a better term. I have spoken to people who's Assault has exploded in air.. yet another guy says it just takes a beating. I suppose with these if you get a good one.. awesome.. get a bad one.. watch out.. and I would probably say you are more likely to get a bad one, than a good one.

Also as they say perception is king.. and you will find that certain areas people will have the same type of heli's... I mean Joe Blow can throw down and he swears by the logo.. so I'll get one of those. Where I fly I see a lot of Goblin, Synergy, Align, with a smattering of logo and Thunder Tiger... People will tend to fly the same models as those around them, as they respect those peoples opinions, and will be swayed by it.

Feel free to pick on up.. but as I said, right or wrong, they have a bad rep in Aus... and I know I wont buy one, till I see a few of them in person, all taking a beating week after week, and even then.. I dont know if I could bring myself to buy one.

 

Good question. I think its because not all clones are the same. If you are prepared to experiment a bit with clone brands you can end up with a heli that will fly exceptionally well - for example the Assault. As @utrinque has pointed out and demonstrated, you can successfully assemble a working Assault with good results and save lots of money.

I think all it really takes is for one hard core talented pilot to take one under his belt and demonstrate what it can do under high loading with repetitious flights. Then if successful i think people would naturally come on board. So far however in AU no one has attempted that. It could be brand perception etc. Why dont I fly an Assault? Umm probably because I already have a trex and goblin but the reason why i dont buy one yet is because no one has an assault by which i can physically see fly.

For example what will happen if you put in a xnova 4530 in an Assault, run it at 2400 and really smak the hell out of it? I mean really hard pogos, snap turns - similar to tareq type flying. Then do that style of flying consecutively for 40 flights. There are not too many helis I trust performing that style of flying on a 700 size heli - infact none at this point including brand names. You can do it for 20 or so flights but then things start to become stressed - blades, gears servos. I trust smaller helis 570 and below - but not bigger helis.

So the Assault needs a champion in order to gain traction. Once it proves itself in the AU heli community then I think it could sell. If someone wants to throw an Assault at me to see if i can break it then i would do that without a problem. Are you listening Mr hobbyking?

 

Hobby King has a bad reputation over here too, as far as the quality of their helicopters goes. I have never seen a Gartt or an Assault helicopter at any event I have ever attended either...and I attend a lot of them. I won`t try and judge them as good or bad, since I have not seen one in person. But going by the photos I have seen of them, they look ok. Just the same though, I`ll stick with TSA.

 

Check this:


Source:
http://rcsearch.info/hobbyking/i65135/

This is only AU Warehouse.

Australia is BIG.

You can check stock level dynamics in other HobbyKing warehouses around the World: International, EU, US, Russia, UK etc.

Keep in mind Assault 700 kit is around $200-$240 USD but it is only naked kit. You need all electronics, motor, blades, radio, charger and pretty expensive lipos.

HK was selling also combo for around $700.

To make it reliable we recommend replacement of some parts like swash, main and front umbrella gears.

Align does not offer "naked" kit. For $850 you can get kit with motor and blades.

Align 700 DFC combo was available for around $850-$900. It was older version not L not Dominator but better deal than Assault.

Watch some videos in my thread. Assault with few Align upgrades can handle 1800 RPM with 800-810mm blades. All you need is $30 Align stretch kit and 800 mm blades.

I like many things in this kit:
- NMB bearings
- price
- 800 size
- more room in the nose, YEP 180A HV fits easy
- compatibility with Align parts and many upgrades e.g. KDE.
- strong motors including MX 850 fit well
- availability of cheap Gartt 4.5kW motors

Why it is not popular?

- Whole cost to make it fly with lipos is around $2000
- 700-800 size is considered "dangerous" by many
- smaller HK clones in the past were subpar

Keep in mind Assault is only HK brand for Gartt Model product.

More details in my thread.

I have only one dream... I would like to see Tareq, Duncan or Alan flying it with cheap motor KST 805 and 815 servos, YEP 180A.

 

I agree any 700 - 800 sized heli will be expensive, you need bigger everything, so as well as bigger lipo's you need a bigger charger, than a bigger power supply for the charger.

However , at the field I go to, at least half the helicopters in are 700s, more than any other size.

Have you ever considered going on Archeli.com.au as they are sponsored by HobbyKing.

Maybe you can persuade their admins to fly the HobbyKing DFC 700 Assault with the mentioned setup.

Surely, as they are sponsored by HobbyKing, they should fly HobbyKing helicopters with pride.

 

Ex-assault owner & it was originally built to test its suitability for a newbie 700 owner ... I replaced the swash with a gaui version & umbrella gears . Prob put 10 flights on it . No smack but plenty of speed runs and aggressive cornering back flips etc . I felt confident passing it & my 8 fg on to a fellow club pilot & upgraded to vbar control ..
I did fit good gear in it .. futaba servos . Hawk 120 esc .vbar black classic

 

I live in savage country Poland

Once I compared Assault to TDR. One HF member was shocked.

Actually Assault and TDR are only frames. In both cases we can put small fortune equiping them with fancy electronics and motor.

In both cases bearings are not made by Henseleit nor Gartt.

In my opiniom servos and FBL gyro choice and proper setup influence heli behaviour far more than frame design.

My colleague sold TDR because tail ratio was to high for smack at high RPM. He prefered Raptor 700 for hard 3D. He is one of the Best pilots in Poland.

Raptor is very heavy comparing to TDR.

TDR has extremely heavy duty drive train and very fragile low weight frame. In crashes frame tempt to break.

Regarding Assault... it can handle 800 blades so with 700mm blades drive train has a lot of headroom for abuse.

Keep in mind 800 has 35% bigger field of area than 700.

10 cm difference in blades lenght seem not much. But this part of blades rotates at aproximately 500-700 km/h ("linear speed").

One day I will put ceramic bearings in Gartt 800. Crashing is not a problem. I did not crash it once for over a year. Honestly I did not perform ANY maintenance nor checking for over a year.

Most of the time it simply sits at the back of my car in the garage. I do not bother taking it home.

From my perspective Gartt 700 is not cheap. Other 700 frames are simply highly overpriced. When I look at the price of washing machine, fridge, phablet or tablet I can not justify >$1000 price tags of other 700 naked kits.

Do not put "mass production"or "expensive R&D" arguments. They are simply BS. Design was mature many year ago already and companies mostly copy simple principal ideas.

Gartt warehouse:



Shipping:


It is not as fancy as Mikado:

Mikado was selling mini Vbar for $470 now Chinese sell Kbar for $25 on eBay.
Quality and performance is the same.

Somehow they make profit out of it. Both of them.

Regarding HobbyKing reputation they sell also $3000 Futaba radios and Ikon FBL unit. They are just global online shop with many warehouses.

 

This is bold statement. As long as we do not have reliable description, video or photos such statements have no value.

On the other hand if supported with photos they are extremely valuable for others and can potentially prevent serious accidents.

After 25 flights with stock swash I saw pictures of broker swashes on HF. I grounded all my Gartts and got swashes from Align 700. Problem solved. I got them brand new for $30 each. Not a big deal.

Trusting big brand helis is more dangerous. Check this thread regarding problems with earlier versions of Align 700:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=295533

Now we have V3 on which Gartt 700 is based.

Check this report of broken main shaft in TDR mid flight:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=375406

"Castle Cremations" nick name was a result of many CC ESC's failures ending with spectacular flames.

Do you remember countless videos of Goblin boomstrikes?

This video is classic:

Did you see Gaui broken blade grips?

Each frame has is limits. Even MKS servos can fail. I have seen reports of lost RC link with Jeti radio.

Do not get paranoi about clones.

Lethal accidents in 2013 were caused by two Align 700's and one Gaui X7 not by clones.

Safety is never a fact always an illusion. No matters what brand you get and how much cash you burn.

Usually harder we fly more often we crash...

 

True with early models.. Boom strikes and so forth.. But obviously they continued to improve and refine the issues...

Yes deaths caused by non clone helis.. Are you suggesting faulty equipment caused the deaths? My understanding it was caused by pilot error.. Not faulty equipment.. Tho that would be hard to prove after the fact..

Boom strikes can happen on pretty much any heli.. But I have seen hk helis snap the entire landing gear off on take off...

I get your a big fan of the assault and gart.. And you replace parts from stock... Why not fly it completely stock?

I have personally not seen a stock hk heli fly well.. And have seen them fail for no reason... I will not buy a heli I hadn't not scene fly.. Unless it's from a trusted proven brand.. Which to me hk are not.. I'll buy there planes and boats. But not their helis

Until I see them in the wild.. In stock format having no issues I won't be using them....

And I doubt I'm alone in that thought

 

I did not suggest anything. It is a fact they were not flying clones.

I stretched Assault 700 to 800 and was flying it with 810mm blades. Benji have flown 800 at 1800 RPM! I recorded 800 max "ground" speed 192km/h with GPS.

Before I replaced some parts it was totally stock With 700mm blades. Benji skipped this phase. He maidened it as 800.

I still use Gartt main gear, tail, boom, TT, landing gear in HK600GT stretched to 700 without issues.

If I could buy brand new, naked Align 700 frame for $250-$350 I would not look at clones at all. Anyway they are alternatime source of cheap parts.

This Assault is all stock:

Not everbody can fly like Tareq.

 

I agree with you, so lets look at this happy snap LOL ^ _ ^ .

Now, here is a happy snap of my Hirobo Freya, the actual one I own is 10 years old, as the original owner bought it around 2005, last decade.

Its literally the village bicycle as its passed through a few pilots.

Its so old, it started life as a mechanical mixing flybarred nitro, then got converted to electric, than to a gasser.

Now its been converted to flybarless with the stock plastic head.

Its still mechanical mixing, one servo for pitch, one for aileron, one for elevator. Yup thats how old it is.



And the person taking the happy snaps felt it was a safe enough helicopter to stand in front of it, with my below mediocre skills hovering it inverted.

 

Here you have broken Align 700 swash:

broken by RockinRush:


What does it prove?

I am not affraid to use Align swash in 800.

 

I agree with you.

Assault is probably not for newbies. It requires more tinkering than Align 700.

I am pretty sure now it can handle a lot but... is it heli for ordiary pilots like me who like to test and experiment with clones or for top guns?

Top guns do not save on servos, ESCs etc. Frame is just small piece of final smack heli.

Seeing Dunkan to get first place using King Kong ESC (funny name ) was really big surprise.

 

It proves my 10 year old Hirobo village bicycle is more reliable than that Align 700 or a HK Assault 700.

^_^

 

In five years I was never able to damage Align or Gaui swash plate in 450, 600, 700 and 800.

We just do not crash hard enough.

It does not mean swashes are bullet proof.

Looking at Hirobo website I have an impression that time stopped for them few years ago. JR seems more up to date with Forza line.

 

broken by RockinRush:


What does it prove?

I am not affraid to use Align swash in 800.[/QUOTE]
Is there a possibility this swash failure could have been caused by improper assembly or maintenance? The shiny wear pattern on that horn suggest to me the AR pin may have been loose for some time and finally wore-out the threads. Or did the bearing seize?

 

Sure it is possible. Same pilot broken also Assault swash.

We can not exclude for sure that someone broken it on purpose.

Lets not get paranoid. At the end parts are designed for flight not to survive extreme crashes at full throttle... right?

 

No one has ever claimed that align parts do not fail, or that any other brand don't.. I could easily search the web for whatever images would suit my argument.. but I'm to busy for that...

any statement made by people is based on personal experience... if you want to remove that to prove your points, find a study that shows number of kits sold, and known failures and returns, add in flying styles and number of flights between failures, setup, and experience of the pilot...

I will also say, that reputations for having poor products, do not just mysteriously appear, they are earn't, regardless of the industry, I have yet to see a company that has produced consistently quality, well designed products, have a bad reputation.

But the question asked was why in australia no one flys them. And the answer from me, whether you agree or not, is that from my view point as someone who lives in australia, talking to people in the hobby here, is that the reputation of their products, including the assault are poor. I cannot see how you can produce quality product with tight tolerances and QA for extremely cheap prices...

with the statement about "Don't make R&D arguments they are BS" I just hope your not in an industry where someone can steal/copy your designs and products and sell them cheap... cause from my viewpoint I would be guttered. Saying that is the same as saying its cool to buy copied games/movies with slight differences from they guy on the corner for $2.. its the same isnt it?

anyway from seeing your previous posts, you must always prove yourself right... so I wont bother with this thread anymore....

Question: Why are they not flown?
Answer: They have a shiz reputation, deserved in your opinion or not, and no pilot I have spoken to in Australia would go out and buy one, other than as a joke.

<Mic drop>

 

Right. .... For the sake of clone discussion, I can expect there would be lesser quality parts involved.... but moreover; with ANY machine, durability can also be based on the quality of the "build". .... employment of proper fasteners, torque values, proper use of appropriate thread-lock, etc.