Ive been to a few F3c meets and sometimes the spotter and pilot run for their lives when " it" happens. Perhaps in the future Clubs will provide a crash net for safety not only for pilots but for the public like they do in Europe .

 

Once it happened to me. I sellected wrong model on my radio. I did not notice there is reverse on elevator. I took of my X5. Two seconds later it was going straight info my face. There was no time to think. I hit throttle hołd and crashed it on purpose to save my head few cuts...

Since this accident it is my habit to check if servos move correctly before EACH flight.

I was lucky it was not my 800.

 

Very true @utrinque , you were very fortunate. Close flying is one of those things. Its like a moth flying into the bug zapper. When you fly close - competition or smak, its just so freekin pretty and an adrenalin rush as well. BUT its also potentially catastrophic.

Just look at all the top competition 3d pilots. Most have done demo flights where the heli is less than 3m away - and with onlookers watching as well. I know you can make your flying statistically safer by not flying the heli towards yourself and performing the maneuver once the helicopter passes you but still stuff can happen (ie a link could pop or wire short). So maintenance is critical as well for safety.

Now back on topic. You are correct @Stephen, it is a breach. But close flying is almost like one of those unspoken sins. People do it but often no one will say anything about it. Its one of the reasons why i love my smaller 450 heli so much. I can throw that thing around 3m infront of me and while i know i will cut myself badly the chances of death are very low. I can do most of the same stuff on my larger 700 gobby , the fact is it scares the shiz out of me (which i like for some reason) when i am flying fast and low doing a complicated manouver. This fear helps me slow down a bit and i have developed a personal set of flying rules to try and fly 3d safely.

What @fred states is true. Netting can protect onlookers and some sort of protection net would definitely be an advantage which would allow close and safe viewing. I doubt a 700 would penetrate any net.

Its a conundrum. Its true what you say but there usually are no whistle blowers on competition day.

I love Tareq, he is one of my heli heros - but look how close the spectators are to the heli.

 

I agree that this seems to be common practice for smaller helis I do wonder what the insurance cover would be like if something happens and a claim is made and the insurance investigator looked at the 3m circle and MOPs, could this be an out for them.

 

Any insurance policy will have conditions to be met before a claim will be paid. Given that the MAAA has MOP's in place, if they were to be ignored then the result may very well be a refused claim and civil liability would follow close behind.
It doesn't take long for competition directors/committee members to do a risk assessment & put appropriate measures in place.
Personally I think that for some completion categories, such as Sportsman, the 9m distance isn't enough.
Call me a killjoy if you want, but risk is made up of likelihood and consequence. We can reduce the likelihood but we can rarely reduce the consequence and this needs to be borne in mind for any heli flying.


Citizen #186

 

Let me re-qualify.... when I say I love Tareq, I mean I love his flying! Now I have cleared that up, I agree with @mr_squiggle, if insurance companies can find a way to avoid paying a claim they will. Rules have to be implemented by clubs in accordance with the MAAA guidlines. I am sure insurance companies would consider any deliberate breach of the MAAA rules a form of negligence. Deliberate negligence would mean a claim could be challenged....

 

Negligence, deliberate or otherwise often leads to a civil action. Insurance companies offset their claim payouts by pursuing those who they believe to be culpable or who have contributed to the outcome.


Citizen #186

 

@mr_squiggle I totally agree that sportsman hovering is to close at 10 m and it should be moved to at least 15m away from the pilot, and why not for the other levels as well at least then everyone flys from the same circle and everyone has a bad day from time to time. @Matty (is this Matty M??) do you have any thoughts on this? @smakmeharder you squashed the Tareq love fest comments far to early!

 

Nothing like a goblin 700 hovering side-on 10m away . Link pops (dodgey auto the flight before) . Tried more and more left aileron till im maxed out - ended up hitting thold and rolling it into the ground . Ended up 3 m away.. put the fwar of god into me .. no more f3c for me & a totally destroyed goblin

 

Yes I had to shut that one down quick @Stuart! The rumor mill would have been working overtime - although he does have a cute smile(JOKING)..

As for the 15M rule, I think that for an experienced pilot 9m could be plenty to realize and shut down, but thats me. I have seen cases where people freeze.. I am not sure what is a safe distance for these people.

I feel that safety needs to be a holistic approach - ie no single solution

For a start, its sounds silly but know your kill switch. When I take off, fly or land my finger is allways on the killswitch - and i have positioned it so that in a crisis situation my hand will clench (along with other anatomy) and flick the kill switch. I also put a piece of silicone tube on it so i have a tactile feeling that i am on the right switch.

The next thing is your flying style. Every trick needs to have its own safety regime. For example doing fast piroflips at 3m using a 700 can be very risky. So you do them at least 9M away from yourself, slightly off center and keep it high if your not confident.

The third thing is maintenance. Check for loose links, regularly inspect the wiring, check the plug inserts are not moving, hotglue plugs into the gyro and make sure no wiring is frayed and connecting with the frame. Also checking your tra nsmitter forrange checks is important. Allways change drive belts earlier rather than later.

The forth thing is check for the ambiance. Make sure that no one will walk in the path of the helicopter, trees wont blank your view and also decide the boundary where the kill switch should be thrown no matter what. Many helicopters have caused damage because the pilot has lost orientation and wont give up the fight. Quite often less damage is done if the kill switch is hit sooner rather than later.

The next thing is be cautious about using post crash parts.. I knew someone who refused to believe their kontronics ESC was faulty (intermittent) after a crash and wrote of another two helicopters as a result.

There are many factors and all need to be considered i feel..

 

You've hit the nail on the head @smackers, safety is a layered approach.
Have a look here for the hierarchy of controls.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_hazard_control
Anyone running a competition or flying display would do well to have a look at other industries where death is the ultimate consequence, such as car/motorbike racing for ways that work to reduce risk to spectators and officials.


Citizen #186

 

Some very good points indeed @mr_squiggle . So who fly's to close to themselves? anyone going to own up? If so do you feel confident or do you feel as if you are jeopardizing your safety?

 

The 9m rule is set by the MAAA for use in Australia.
The layout for a F3C competition (10m from the pilot ) is set down by the international body FAI.

 

3dx Australia enforces the 9m rule im the one enforcing said rule being the safety officer at HMAS where 3dx is held.

The manouver descriptions for 3dx Aus are coppied straight off the 3DX worldwide site

 

I put grapes on the skids, and have one or two each circuit
{not really}
Simon

 

I fly with my finger on the hold switch and have, in the past, accidentally hit it during a maneuver.

The risk of an accident and someone getting hurt is ever present regardless of how far you fly away from yourself or spectators. The Spectator line has to be 30m from the flightline, but there have still been instances of out of control models landing in the crowd. For aerobatic competition, the judges pilot and caller should be the only people allowed within this 30m line.

You must realise that the FAI layout is designed for F3C pilots who should be capable of performing in all conditions without the model wandering dramatically. However, Aus like many other countries have other classes which are designed to gradually lead pilots into F3C aerobatics. It is more convenient to use the same layout for Sportsman, Advanced and Expert. Moving it further out to 15m also makes it harder for judges to accurately see if the model is over the flag. Bottom line is, if you feel the pirouette is drifting in too close, then abort the maneuver and fly away. At the end of the day be safe and put in more practice.

 

An interesting point you bring up @Ant . The judges need to see the details of the heli so they cant be too far away....

 

The pros are emulated by us amateurs. I think the pro pilots should set an example for the rest of us. I have a friend who flies close to himself. I have mentioned the safety aspect of this behavior to him, and he just doesn't get it. I fear that it's only a matter of time.

 

I do wonder if an extra metre or 2 would make judging any more difficult? They already sit behind each flag and the pilot so in that direction there shouldn't be a problem. @Ant thinking about your comment about competent pilots flying the moves makes me think of the fun fly where pilots were learning and flying at 10m. Perhaps they should learn >10 away but my first go at a completing the schedule was at one of these and I hadn't flown all but 2 of the moves prior.
I agree that pilots should be able to maintain control but there are a lot that can't especially when the wind is blowing straight in our faces or a mechanical issues causes the heli to move closer than we want.